Comments on: Reformation Reversed: Emergent Church and the Undoing of Faith http://www.brandonstaggs.com/2008/01/20/reformation-reversed-emergent-church-and-the-undoing-of-faith/ Software, Society, the Bible, Politics, and everything else. Sat, 07 Aug 2010 15:29:45 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: Addie K. Miller http://www.brandonstaggs.com/2008/01/20/reformation-reversed-emergent-church-and-the-undoing-of-faith/comment-page-1/#comment-3799 Addie K. Miller Wed, 16 Dec 2009 20:18:50 +0000 http://www.brandonstaggs.com/2008/01/20/reformation-reversed-emergent-church-and-the-undoing-of-faith/#comment-3799 Really appreciate your article, I have been researching Purpose Driven/Emergent/New Apostolic Reformation/Kingdom Now/Dominion Now Movements since the early 1990s, even changed seminaries because of these, as a former Catholic, I am suspicious of anything/anyone who does not line up perfectly with God's Word, unfortunately SBC now stands for S-lowly B-ecoming C-atholic. Because of Christ, Addie K. Miller Really appreciate your article, I have been researching Purpose Driven/Emergent/New Apostolic Reformation/Kingdom Now/Dominion Now Movements since the early 1990s, even changed seminaries because of these, as a former Catholic, I am suspicious of anything/anyone who does not line up perfectly with God’s Word, unfortunately SBC now stands for S-lowly B-ecoming C-atholic.
Because of Christ, Addie K. Miller

]]> By: Ronald Creel http://www.brandonstaggs.com/2008/01/20/reformation-reversed-emergent-church-and-the-undoing-of-faith/comment-page-1/#comment-654 Ronald Creel Fri, 03 Oct 2008 16:42:21 +0000 http://www.brandonstaggs.com/2008/01/20/reformation-reversed-emergent-church-and-the-undoing-of-faith/#comment-654 As a practicing Christian I have been asked to leave a number of churches for just asking if you are teaching this why is this in the Bible. I have not been to a church in 5 years because of this. Recently I came to the conclusion after reading one of their books that the jw's are making Jehovah into the antichrist with their teaching. Finding Bible believing Christians is hard in this day and age. He that endureth unto the end shall be saved. So endure my fellow Christians in spite of the new age movements which go back to the serpent in Eden. Love in Christ Jesus; Ronald As a practicing Christian I have been asked to leave a number of churches for just asking if you are teaching this why is this in the Bible. I have not been to a church in 5 years because of this. Recently I came to the conclusion after reading one of their books that the jw’s are making Jehovah into the antichrist with their teaching. Finding Bible believing Christians is hard in this day and age. He that endureth unto the end shall be saved. So endure my fellow Christians in spite of the new age movements which go back to the serpent in Eden. Love in Christ Jesus; Ronald

]]> By: Mark Anthony http://www.brandonstaggs.com/2008/01/20/reformation-reversed-emergent-church-and-the-undoing-of-faith/comment-page-1/#comment-600 Mark Anthony Sat, 07 Jun 2008 07:44:35 +0000 http://www.brandonstaggs.com/2008/01/20/reformation-reversed-emergent-church-and-the-undoing-of-faith/#comment-600 Given the *process* of canonization of scripture, and the order of its writing, the quote of Revelation about "this book" are not clearly relevant to the entire canonized bible. For one thing, the "this," when written, clearly referred to the book of the revelation itself, since there was no canonized or accepted collection of scripture at that time. Thus, "this book," meant, simply, the book of the revelation itself. Secondly, there is not agreement that the book was the last written of the canonized books. If this is true, as it may very well be, then even if we allow "this book" referring to the collection of scriptures, we have the problem of the books written later not being covered by the statement. Also, regardless of Warren's statement, Warren is clearly *not* considered by emergent church proponents a part of that movement's leadership, nor by most a part of the movement at all. The early reformers were not reforming from mysticism, but from corrupt catholicism. Thus any return to mysticism is not in and of itself an undoing of the reformation. Also, the early reformers spoke of being "reformed and always reforming." If what is being "reclaimed" is right, then it is form of further reformation, just as the early reformers spoke of going *back* to apostolic worship, so speak the emergent proponents. The bottom line is that we must embrace that which is true, and you have only discussed that which some say is not true, rather than directly dealing with the truth or untruth of the emergent propositions. Overall, the book, and this blog, rely mostly on what other men say, and on very biased interpretations of proof texts, rather than engaging in any real theological or intellectual inquiry. I would say that those looking for a helpful critique of the emergent church movement have to look further than this site or the book being promoted. Grace and Peace, ~ Mark Given the *process* of canonization of scripture, and the order of its writing, the quote of Revelation about “this book” are not clearly relevant to the entire canonized bible. For one thing, the “this,” when written, clearly referred to the book of the revelation itself, since there was no canonized or accepted collection of scripture at that time. Thus, “this book,” meant, simply, the book of the revelation itself. Secondly, there is not agreement that the book was the last written of the canonized books. If this is true, as it may very well be, then even if we allow “this book” referring to the collection of scriptures, we have the problem of the books written later not being covered by the statement.

Also, regardless of Warren’s statement, Warren is clearly *not* considered by emergent church proponents a part of that movement’s leadership, nor by most a part of the movement at all.

The early reformers were not reforming from mysticism, but from corrupt catholicism. Thus any return to mysticism is not in and of itself an undoing of the reformation. Also, the early reformers spoke of being “reformed and always reforming.” If what is being “reclaimed” is right, then it is form of further reformation, just as the early reformers spoke of going *back* to apostolic worship, so speak the emergent proponents.

The bottom line is that we must embrace that which is true, and you have only discussed that which some say is not true, rather than directly dealing with the truth or untruth of the emergent propositions.

Overall, the book, and this blog, rely mostly on what other men say, and on very biased interpretations of proof texts, rather than engaging in any real theological or intellectual inquiry. I would say that those looking for a helpful critique of the emergent church movement have to look further than this site or the book being promoted.

Grace and Peace,

~ Mark

]]> By: Susan lucas http://www.brandonstaggs.com/2008/01/20/reformation-reversed-emergent-church-and-the-undoing-of-faith/comment-page-1/#comment-550 Susan lucas Thu, 17 Apr 2008 20:52:45 +0000 http://www.brandonstaggs.com/2008/01/20/reformation-reversed-emergent-church-and-the-undoing-of-faith/#comment-550 Brandon, Came across your website looking into CIS for my mac....thank you for your honest comments regarding CIS. Appreciate your updated comment posted on jan 2006. I've been vacillating between third party cartridges or investing in a CIS. Thanks to you I have my answer...third party cartridges( at least for now). I am fairly new at the computer and the price of ink is way out of line, I'm designing cards ( Christ centered) and I have more trail & error prints than good ones right now.. any savings is welcome! I am equally impressed and thankful for your CHRITian testimony!!! Praise HIM & HIM alone. My husband & I are in complete agreement with your above article. 2 Thess 2:3 does say the apostasy does come first... We believe the hour is late and " our redemption draws nigh"... Bless you & your family and His ministry through you! Susan Brandon,
Came across your website looking into CIS for my mac….thank you for your honest comments regarding CIS. Appreciate your updated comment posted on jan 2006. I’ve been vacillating between third party cartridges or investing in a CIS. Thanks to you I have my answer…third party cartridges( at least for now). I am fairly new at the computer and the price of ink is way out of line, I’m designing cards ( Christ centered) and I have more trail & error prints than good ones right now.. any savings is welcome!
I am equally impressed and thankful for your CHRITian testimony!!! Praise HIM & HIM alone. My husband & I are in complete agreement with your above article.
2 Thess 2:3 does say the apostasy does come first… We believe the hour is late and ” our redemption draws nigh”…
Bless you & your family and His ministry through you!
Susan

]]> By: Raani http://www.brandonstaggs.com/2008/01/20/reformation-reversed-emergent-church-and-the-undoing-of-faith/comment-page-1/#comment-542 Raani Tue, 01 Apr 2008 05:06:37 +0000 http://www.brandonstaggs.com/2008/01/20/reformation-reversed-emergent-church-and-the-undoing-of-faith/#comment-542 Great post! To Julie Cress: For a great directory of local churches, go to www.faithfulwordbaptist.org Great post! To Julie Cress: For a great directory of local churches, go to http://www.faithfulwordbaptist.org

]]> By: Major Rivers http://www.brandonstaggs.com/2008/01/20/reformation-reversed-emergent-church-and-the-undoing-of-faith/comment-page-1/#comment-529 Major Rivers Mon, 10 Mar 2008 15:36:52 +0000 http://www.brandonstaggs.com/2008/01/20/reformation-reversed-emergent-church-and-the-undoing-of-faith/#comment-529 The "Word of God" prior to 1604 was in the manuscripts of the Masoretic (O.T.) and Textus Receptus (N.T.) texts, and the translations out of those texts into various languages (such as the Reina Valera, etc.). Modern Bible translations certainly do diminish or seek to eliminate the deity of the Lord Jesus Christ and the fundamentals of the faith. You don't need to be a Hebrew or Greek scholar; just spend a few hours honestly comparing an AV and an NIV Bible, going line by line, particularly in the New Testament, and see for yourself. Whole words, phrases, even chapters have been eliminated from the NIV under the guise of "modern scholarship" and "modern textual criticism." The “Word of God” prior to 1604 was in the manuscripts of the Masoretic (O.T.) and Textus Receptus (N.T.) texts, and the translations out of those texts into various languages (such as the Reina Valera, etc.).

Modern Bible translations certainly do diminish or seek to eliminate the deity of the Lord Jesus Christ and the fundamentals of the faith. You don’t need to be a Hebrew or Greek scholar; just spend a few hours honestly comparing an AV and an NIV Bible, going line by line, particularly in the New Testament, and see for yourself. Whole words, phrases, even chapters have been eliminated from the NIV under the guise of “modern scholarship” and “modern textual criticism.”

]]> By: Mrs. Bob http://www.brandonstaggs.com/2008/01/20/reformation-reversed-emergent-church-and-the-undoing-of-faith/comment-page-1/#comment-528 Mrs. Bob Thu, 06 Mar 2008 20:06:33 +0000 http://www.brandonstaggs.com/2008/01/20/reformation-reversed-emergent-church-and-the-undoing-of-faith/#comment-528 What I am not sure about is are you FOR the reformed doctrine movement (Doug Phillips/Vision Forum)? What I am not sure about is are you FOR the reformed doctrine movement (Doug Phillips/Vision Forum)?

]]> By: Julie Cress http://www.brandonstaggs.com/2008/01/20/reformation-reversed-emergent-church-and-the-undoing-of-faith/comment-page-1/#comment-518 Julie Cress Thu, 21 Feb 2008 18:27:17 +0000 http://www.brandonstaggs.com/2008/01/20/reformation-reversed-emergent-church-and-the-undoing-of-faith/#comment-518 Oh wow, I'm so thankful to have found this website while reading comments at Lighthousetrailsresearch.com. I too read the KJV, Dave Hunt's and T.A. McMahon's, Ray Yungen's, and Roger Oakland's books! If anyone has not read Warren Smith's, Deceived on Purpose The New Age Implications of the Purpose-Driven Church, you're in for an eye-opener big time. I, too, have not been able to find a local church. Anyone out there from the Little Rock, AR area??? True believers who have received the love of the truth are few and far between anymore, huh? Oh, it breaks my heart... God bless you all. Oh wow, I’m so thankful to have found this website while reading comments at Lighthousetrailsresearch.com. I too read the KJV, Dave Hunt’s and T.A. McMahon’s, Ray Yungen’s, and Roger Oakland’s books! If anyone has not read Warren Smith’s, Deceived on Purpose The New Age Implications of the Purpose-Driven Church, you’re in for an eye-opener big time. I, too, have not been able to find a local church. Anyone out there from the Little Rock, AR area???
True believers who have received the love of the truth are few and far between anymore, huh? Oh, it breaks my heart… God bless you all.

]]> By: Brandon http://www.brandonstaggs.com/2008/01/20/reformation-reversed-emergent-church-and-the-undoing-of-faith/comment-page-1/#comment-497 Brandon Tue, 29 Jan 2008 02:24:06 +0000 http://www.brandonstaggs.com/2008/01/20/reformation-reversed-emergent-church-and-the-undoing-of-faith/#comment-497 Rick Warren associates HIMSELF with the EC movement. Chapter 2 of Faith Undone documents the association clearly. Rick Warren associates HIMSELF with the EC movement. Chapter 2 of Faith Undone documents the association clearly.

]]> By: Looking Up http://www.brandonstaggs.com/2008/01/20/reformation-reversed-emergent-church-and-the-undoing-of-faith/comment-page-1/#comment-496 Looking Up Mon, 28 Jan 2008 22:26:30 +0000 http://www.brandonstaggs.com/2008/01/20/reformation-reversed-emergent-church-and-the-undoing-of-faith/#comment-496 This is the first time I've ever seen Rick Warren equated -- or even associated -- with the so-called "emergent church" movement. Brian McLaren, and "A New Kind of Christian," yes.... but Warren?? He's a whole 'nother thing. ("Seeker sensitive" and mega-church and "Purpose Driven" maybe... but emergent?). More on this subject here, for those interested: http://galatiansc4v16.wordpress.com/2005/10/11/rick-warren-and-the-emergent-church-i-told-you-so/ @Pastor Waller: BTW, What was the "Word of God" before 1604? (...and last I heard, JESUS gave the only way to salvation....) This is the first time I’ve ever seen Rick Warren equated — or even associated — with the so-called “emergent church” movement. Brian McLaren, and “A New Kind of Christian,” yes…. but Warren?? He’s a whole ‘nother thing. (“Seeker sensitive” and mega-church and “Purpose Driven” maybe… but emergent?). More on this subject here, for those interested:

http://galatiansc4v16.wordpress.com/2005/10/11/rick-warren-and-the-emergent-church-i-told-you-so/

@Pastor Waller: BTW, What was the “Word of God” before 1604? (…and last I heard, JESUS gave the only way to salvation….)

]]>