Comments on: Christians, the Bible, and Guns: is Self-Defense Vengeance? http://www.brandonstaggs.com/2007/07/28/christians-the-bible-and-guns-is-self-defense-vengeance/ Software, Society, the Bible, Politics, and everything else. Tue, 27 Jul 2010 03:12:09 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: Peter http://www.brandonstaggs.com/2007/07/28/christians-the-bible-and-guns-is-self-defense-vengeance/comment-page-1/#comment-3962 Peter Tue, 27 Jul 2010 03:12:09 +0000 http://www.brandonstaggs.com/2007/07/28/christians-the-bible-and-guns-is-self-defense-vengeance/#comment-3962 I live in Canada and am Christian. We have strict hand-gun control and so most households are without guns, except for some with hunting rifles. These have to be stored without ammo and the bolt removed, etc. They have to be locked up. When I go to bed at night, I and all my fellow canadians don't feel fearful as many US citizens do. You seem to the World as paranoid and as Christians that appears to us like lack of faith sometimes. My In-Laws once came up here in their motorhome and left their gun at the border for safe keeping. Their friends would not do that and stayed south of here. That saddened us and made us laugh at the same time. Your laws in many states that allows someone to shoot at a retreating or unarmed person is not self-defence and to me is just plain murder. Any Christian who would sanction that, is in question in my opinion. I live in Canada and am Christian. We have strict hand-gun control and so most households are without guns, except for some with hunting rifles. These have to be stored without ammo and the bolt removed, etc. They have to be locked up.
When I go to bed at night, I and all my fellow canadians don’t feel fearful as many US citizens do. You seem to the World as paranoid and as Christians that appears to us like lack of faith sometimes. My In-Laws once came up here in their motorhome and left their gun at the border for safe keeping. Their friends would not do that and stayed south of here. That saddened us and made us laugh at the same time.
Your laws in many states that allows someone to shoot at a retreating or unarmed person is not self-defence and to me is just plain murder. Any Christian who would sanction that, is in question in my opinion.

]]> By: Brandon http://www.brandonstaggs.com/2007/07/28/christians-the-bible-and-guns-is-self-defense-vengeance/comment-page-1/#comment-3943 Brandon Thu, 08 Jul 2010 14:57:12 +0000 http://www.brandonstaggs.com/2007/07/28/christians-the-bible-and-guns-is-self-defense-vengeance/#comment-3943 Lots of interesting comments here. One additional point I want to make: PROVIDING for your family means ensuring you are there to do so. If you willingly give up your life for the sake of a criminal, you are not providing for your family. Someone who is willing to take my life is robbing my family of their provider, father, husband, etc. As much as I would never want to take a life, I would want to allow that even less. Lots of interesting comments here. One additional point I want to make: PROVIDING for your family means ensuring you are there to do so. If you willingly give up your life for the sake of a criminal, you are not providing for your family. Someone who is willing to take my life is robbing my family of their provider, father, husband, etc. As much as I would never want to take a life, I would want to allow that even less.

]]> By: David http://www.brandonstaggs.com/2007/07/28/christians-the-bible-and-guns-is-self-defense-vengeance/comment-page-1/#comment-3942 David Thu, 08 Jul 2010 01:04:53 +0000 http://www.brandonstaggs.com/2007/07/28/christians-the-bible-and-guns-is-self-defense-vengeance/#comment-3942 I think that in any case, it would be a hard choice to take a gun and shoot someone, although I am with all who say it isn't wrong. I do think however, that killing is sometimes unnecessary, and God can sometimes give another way to protect you family without killing. Violent self-defense may be a reaction based on fear. If someone came to shoot me with a gun, shooting him would be simply me or him. If I die, I will go to heaven, but he? Why not forgive him and let him have another chance. On the other hand, shooting to defend someone else, or several others goes beyond you. I can forgive what people do to me. But if someone is threatening the lives of many, (as in the case of a school shooting, I think it would be un-Christian to stand by and watch, especially if you could stop it. "Whoever saves his life will lose it” (Matthew 16:24) refers to self-defense, but not defense of others. Also, cold-blooded murder and defense are to separate things. I would probably not kill someone who broke into my house to steal. If he wanted my car that much, maybe he needed it more than I did. I am against gun-banning, and I think generally everyone should be. There are times when hunting is useful, etc. Besides, target shooting is very fun, I am good with both pistol and rifle. And it is no more dangerous than race car driving. (It is actually less dangerous.) Besides, banning guns won't keep them from criminals, who steal them anyway. "A gun is a tool, ... no better or no worse than any other tool: an axe, a shovel or anything. A gun is as good or as bad as the man using it." I think that in any case, it would be a hard choice to take a gun and shoot someone, although I am with all who say it isn’t wrong. I do think however, that killing is sometimes unnecessary, and God can sometimes give another way to protect you family without killing.

Violent self-defense may be a reaction based on fear. If someone came to shoot me with a gun, shooting him would be simply me or him. If I die, I will go to heaven, but he? Why not forgive him and let him have another chance. On the other hand, shooting to defend someone else, or several others goes beyond you. I can forgive what people do to me. But if someone is threatening the lives of many, (as in the case of a school shooting, I think it would be un-Christian to stand by and watch, especially if you could stop it.

“Whoever saves his life will lose it” (Matthew 16:24) refers to self-defense, but not defense of others. Also, cold-blooded murder and defense are to separate things.

I would probably not kill someone who broke into my house to steal. If he wanted my car that much, maybe he needed it more than I did.

I am against gun-banning, and I think generally everyone should be. There are times when hunting is useful, etc. Besides, target shooting is very fun, I am good with both pistol and rifle. And it is no more dangerous than race car driving. (It is actually less dangerous.) Besides, banning guns won’t keep them from criminals, who steal them anyway.

“A gun is a tool, … no better or no worse than any other tool: an axe, a shovel or anything. A gun is as good or as bad as the man using it.”

]]> By: Lillian http://www.brandonstaggs.com/2007/07/28/christians-the-bible-and-guns-is-self-defense-vengeance/comment-page-1/#comment-3937 Lillian Tue, 29 Jun 2010 03:17:52 +0000 http://www.brandonstaggs.com/2007/07/28/christians-the-bible-and-guns-is-self-defense-vengeance/#comment-3937 Violent self-defense is a reaction based in fear, not love. Over and over again the Bible tells us, "Do not be afraid." In Matthew 10:28 Jesus himself says not to be afraid of men because the worst thing a human can do to you is kill you. Jesus promises many things, but he never promises a life of safety. And we learn from the Gospels the futility of this pursuit: "Whoever saves his life will lose it" (Matthew 16:24). In response to the quote from John 15, how is shooting a thief who breaks and enters the same as laying down your life for a friend? The passage in Exodus 22 was intended to be a guide for the judicial system, not personal morality. Jesus looks at other verses from the same section and expands them when he says, "You've heard it said not to murder, I tell you not to hate." Violent self-defense is a reaction based in fear, not love. Over and over again the Bible tells us, “Do not be afraid.” In Matthew 10:28 Jesus himself says not to be afraid of men because the worst thing a human can do to you is kill you.
Jesus promises many things, but he never promises a life of safety. And we learn from the Gospels the futility of this pursuit: “Whoever saves his life will lose it” (Matthew 16:24).
In response to the quote from John 15, how is shooting a thief who breaks and enters the same as laying down your life for a friend?
The passage in Exodus 22 was intended to be a guide for the judicial system, not personal morality. Jesus looks at other verses from the same section and expands them when he says, “You’ve heard it said not to murder, I tell you not to hate.”

]]> By: Matt28:28 http://www.brandonstaggs.com/2007/07/28/christians-the-bible-and-guns-is-self-defense-vengeance/comment-page-1/#comment-3936 Matt28:28 Mon, 28 Jun 2010 21:22:38 +0000 http://www.brandonstaggs.com/2007/07/28/christians-the-bible-and-guns-is-self-defense-vengeance/#comment-3936 I continue to see people post I Timothy 5:8 as a defense for lethal force. I cannot say that I can side with either case, because I am studying and seeking guidance, but the word "provide" in this verse is from a Greek word that is not associated with "protection." It is used in the sense of material provision. I am not a "gun banner" by any means. I have my own firearms and am well familiar with how to use them. I have always grown up under the impression that I have the right to my own life. Based upon the constitution alone, I would agree, but the Bible tells us that our life is no longer our own. It also says that the wages of our sin is death. Our sins may be forgiven and covered by Christ's blood, but we still deserve death each time we sin. We are therefore Biblically deserving of death whether it comes at the hands of God or the hands of man. In a sovereign God's eyes, we have no right to our own lives. I'm not seeking to cause conflict, only healthy discussion, and any constructive response would be much welcomed. I continue to see people post I Timothy 5:8 as a defense for lethal force. I cannot say that I can side with either case, because I am studying and seeking guidance, but the word “provide” in this verse is from a Greek word that is not associated with “protection.” It is used in the sense of material provision. I am not a “gun banner” by any means. I have my own firearms and am well familiar with how to use them. I have always grown up under the impression that I have the right to my own life. Based upon the constitution alone, I would agree, but the Bible tells us that our life is no longer our own. It also says that the wages of our sin is death. Our sins may be forgiven and covered by Christ’s blood, but we still deserve death each time we sin. We are therefore Biblically deserving of death whether it comes at the hands of God or the hands of man. In a sovereign God’s eyes, we have no right to our own lives. I’m not seeking to cause conflict, only healthy discussion, and any constructive response would be much welcomed.

]]> By: the pilgrim http://www.brandonstaggs.com/2007/07/28/christians-the-bible-and-guns-is-self-defense-vengeance/comment-page-1/#comment-3904 the pilgrim Sat, 22 May 2010 10:14:11 +0000 http://www.brandonstaggs.com/2007/07/28/christians-the-bible-and-guns-is-self-defense-vengeance/#comment-3904 OMG. Please read the Bible and ask the Holy spirit to guide you. First of all, if I understand what a lot of people are saying all christians should have a gun since the streets are not safe and the world system is against us. Now if we should have guns to protect ourselves against thieves we should also protect ourselves against sickness, natural disaster, car accident, etc. So at the time the thieve will break into your house God will not be here or he will not know that's why you should not wait for God to help you but you should do it by yourself. How do you know that God did not send the thief in order for you to preach him? Also, you forgot Roman 8 verse 28 "And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him,[j] who[k] have been called according to his purpose." or maybe you prefer taking the word "all" and put "all except" when someone break into my house, when my life is in danger,etc? Also, when you go to preach i supposed that you carry your gun or maybe when you go to the church? How do you preach the gospel of God if you don't trust god to protect you? So we are not ready to suffer for God? Because if I were not a christian I would defend myself but since I am a christian I can't do so. It is very easy to understand it. If it was not by grace we all should be dead if we were still living in the old testament. If you don't want to believe that because you think it is not a sin to have a gun do it for your testimony. Because remember what Paul said about eating meat and anything that is not prohibited but cause someone not to come to Christ. Do you think that your testimony will be very good and you could preach the gospel after killing someone who broke up into your house. You could ask those people who were doing the so called "Holy war". you think that God could not help the marthirs who died by the hands of Neron or else? If you think that God can not prevent you from a thief attack or from being rape, or killed, or whatever you need to relearn about the power of God, the knowledge of God and God himself because there are some basics things about God you did not understand. May God help you all my brothers in Christ. OMG. Please read the Bible and ask the Holy spirit to guide you. First of all, if I understand what a lot of people are saying all christians should have a gun since the streets are not safe and the world system is against us. Now if we should have guns to protect ourselves against thieves we should also protect ourselves against sickness, natural disaster, car accident, etc. So at the time the thieve will break into your house God will not be here or he will not know that’s why you should not wait for God to help you but you should do it by yourself. How do you know that God did not send the thief in order for you to preach him? Also, you forgot Roman 8 verse 28 “And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him,[j] who[k] have been called according to his purpose.” or maybe you prefer taking the word “all” and put “all except” when someone break into my house, when my life is in danger,etc?
Also, when you go to preach i supposed that you carry your gun or maybe when you go to the church? How do you preach the gospel of God if you don’t trust god to protect you? So we are not ready to suffer for God? Because if I were not a christian I would defend myself but since I am a christian I can’t do so. It is very easy to understand it. If it was not by grace we all should be dead if we were still living in the old testament. If you don’t want to believe that because you think it is not a sin to have a gun do it for your testimony. Because remember what Paul said about eating meat and anything that is not prohibited but cause someone not to come to Christ. Do you think that your testimony will be very good and you could preach the gospel after killing someone who broke up into your house. You could ask those people who were doing the so called “Holy war”. you think that God could not help the marthirs who died by the hands of Neron or else? If you think that God can not prevent you from a thief attack or from being rape, or killed, or whatever you need to relearn about the power of God, the knowledge of God and God himself because there are some basics things about God you did not understand. May God help you all my brothers in Christ.

]]> By: BW http://www.brandonstaggs.com/2007/07/28/christians-the-bible-and-guns-is-self-defense-vengeance/comment-page-1/#comment-3843 BW Mon, 22 Feb 2010 17:13:04 +0000 http://www.brandonstaggs.com/2007/07/28/christians-the-bible-and-guns-is-self-defense-vengeance/#comment-3843 yes carlos, GOD will help you and defend you but you have to help yourself too, arm yourself yes carlos, GOD will help you and defend you but you have to help yourself too, arm yourself

]]> By: Damascusmoments http://www.brandonstaggs.com/2007/07/28/christians-the-bible-and-guns-is-self-defense-vengeance/comment-page-1/#comment-3823 Damascusmoments Wed, 20 Jan 2010 10:45:18 +0000 http://www.brandonstaggs.com/2007/07/28/christians-the-bible-and-guns-is-self-defense-vengeance/#comment-3823 So how does the presence of references to scripture on guns issued to the UK and US military bear on this discussion? I blogged about it here: http://tinyurl.com/ye6acor Would welcome your comments. So how does the presence of references to scripture on guns issued to the UK and US military bear on this discussion?

I blogged about it here: http://tinyurl.com/ye6acor

Would welcome your comments.

]]> By: Roman http://www.brandonstaggs.com/2007/07/28/christians-the-bible-and-guns-is-self-defense-vengeance/comment-page-1/#comment-3822 Roman Tue, 19 Jan 2010 02:37:32 +0000 http://www.brandonstaggs.com/2007/07/28/christians-the-bible-and-guns-is-self-defense-vengeance/#comment-3822 After our forefathers fought and paid for our liberties and comforts with their very lives, we find it necessary to discuss whether or not fighting for such things is justified. How does one stop a holocaust? How does one stop the slaughter of the innocent? How does one protect his family? Just because you don't want to have to fight does not make fighting wrong. We are to examine our hearts. God can and will lead us into battles. He has done so with His people throughout the ages. Let's not forget that David ("a man after God's own heart"), was a man aquainted with battle and blood. Many of the heroes of the faith were likewise. Allow me to add a verse to the ones already mentioned: Pr 21:31 "The horse is made ready for the day of battle, but victory rests with the LORD." (NIV) Yes, we trust God for the victory at the same time we make ready for the fight. I don't want to have to fight. It is terrifying but who are you trusting for the victory? God may keep the evil from your door or ordaine that you confront it and push it back. As scripture teaches we should be prepared. After our forefathers fought and paid for our liberties and comforts with their very lives, we find it necessary to discuss whether or not fighting for such things is justified. How does one stop a holocaust? How does one stop the slaughter of the innocent? How does one protect his family?

Just because you don’t want to have to fight does not make fighting wrong. We are to examine our hearts. God can and will lead us into battles. He has done so with His people throughout the ages.

Let’s not forget that David (“a man after God’s own heart”), was a man aquainted with battle and blood. Many of the heroes of the faith were likewise.

Allow me to add a verse to the ones already mentioned:

Pr 21:31 “The horse is made ready for the day of battle, but victory rests with the LORD.” (NIV)

Yes, we trust God for the victory at the same time we make ready for the fight. I don’t want to have to fight. It is terrifying but who are you trusting for the victory? God may keep the evil from your door or ordaine that you confront it and push it back. As scripture teaches we should be prepared.

]]> By: Matthew http://www.brandonstaggs.com/2007/07/28/christians-the-bible-and-guns-is-self-defense-vengeance/comment-page-1/#comment-3818 Matthew Tue, 12 Jan 2010 00:51:27 +0000 http://www.brandonstaggs.com/2007/07/28/christians-the-bible-and-guns-is-self-defense-vengeance/#comment-3818 We are permitted to defend and the victory will be given the faithful by God. We are not to attack, but Love our enemies, so much as it depends on us we are to be at peace with all men. We are permitted to defend and the victory will be given the faithful by God. We are not to attack, but Love our enemies, so much as it depends on us we are to be at peace with all men.

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