Comments on: Christians, the Bible, and Guns: is Self-Defense Vengeance? http://www.brandonstaggs.com/2007/07/28/christians-the-bible-and-guns-is-self-defense-vengeance/ Software, Society, the Bible, Politics, and everything else. Wed, 28 Dec 2011 22:22:01 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: Shaina http://www.brandonstaggs.com/2007/07/28/christians-the-bible-and-guns-is-self-defense-vengeance/comment-page-2/#comment-6676 Shaina Sun, 18 Dec 2011 06:13:10 +0000 http://www.brandonstaggs.com/2007/07/28/christians-the-bible-and-guns-is-self-defense-vengeance/#comment-6676 Hi, I agree with most of this article, but you are portraying those who promote gun control laws in an unfair light. Not only is this generally unkind, it most certainly does not show Christlike love for those who are of the world. If an unbeliever were reading this, what impression would it form in their minds of us, who are called to be the light and salt of the world? It also reads rather like ad hominem, which is a logical fallacy and generally unhelpful for the purposes of reasonable discussion. Hi, I agree with most of this article, but you are portraying those who promote gun control laws in an unfair light. Not only is this generally unkind, it most certainly does not show Christlike love for
those who are of the world. If an unbeliever were reading this, what impression would it form in their minds of us, who are called to be the light and salt of the world? It also reads rather like ad hominem, which is a logical fallacy and generally unhelpful for the purposes of reasonable discussion.

]]> By: Sid Leo http://www.brandonstaggs.com/2007/07/28/christians-the-bible-and-guns-is-self-defense-vengeance/comment-page-2/#comment-6266 Sid Leo Tue, 18 Oct 2011 18:58:52 +0000 http://www.brandonstaggs.com/2007/07/28/christians-the-bible-and-guns-is-self-defense-vengeance/#comment-6266 The Bible condemns a person seeking vengeance through violence. The Bible condemns murder, i.e. premeditated killing by an individual, but not self-defense, nor all killing by whatever entity. The Bible condemns violent resistance against legitimate government authority. The Bible condemns rebellion against legitimate government authority. The Bible does not condemn protection of life and limb of loved ones. The Bible does give responsibility to the head of the household to provide and protect those under his leadership. The means are not described nor proscribed. All of the scripture quoted in these posts, when taken in context, teach these principles. It is important to "rightly divide the scripture" by applying passages in their proper context, and by differentiating between interactions between an individual and a violent unlawful assailant and an individual and legitimate authority. The Bible condemns a person seeking vengeance through violence. The Bible condemns murder, i.e. premeditated killing by an individual, but not self-defense, nor all killing by whatever entity. The Bible condemns violent resistance against legitimate government authority. The Bible condemns rebellion against legitimate government authority. The Bible does not condemn protection of life and limb of loved ones. The Bible does give responsibility to the head of the household to provide and protect those under his leadership. The means are not described nor proscribed. All of the scripture quoted in these posts, when taken in context, teach these principles. It is important to “rightly divide the scripture” by applying passages in their proper context, and by differentiating between interactions between an individual and a violent unlawful assailant and an individual and legitimate authority.

]]> By: MikkoM http://www.brandonstaggs.com/2007/07/28/christians-the-bible-and-guns-is-self-defense-vengeance/comment-page-1/#comment-6237 MikkoM Wed, 12 Oct 2011 08:26:48 +0000 http://www.brandonstaggs.com/2007/07/28/christians-the-bible-and-guns-is-self-defense-vengeance/#comment-6237 Charles John opposed quoting OT, and then himself quotes Jesus. Dear sir, with all respect, you seem to have forgotten when the NT began (not before the death of the testator, according to Hebrews). You can quote OT freely when God's program has not changed concerning any particular matter. You just need to know if the program has been changed or not. If NT does not give us anything about any change, then we have to go back to OT. To apostle Paul was given instructions for us. Jesus prepared the 12 & the rest of the (believing) Israel for the coming tribulation. That is, Jesus and Paul had a context, in which they spoke / wrote. So according to Jesus you should not care about working either, because everything will be GIVEN, but you do care. Which is right, according to Paul. Paul says that we should be in peace with everybody IF it is possible. And i myself believe this settles the issue. Charles John opposed quoting OT, and then himself quotes Jesus.

Dear sir, with all respect, you seem to have forgotten when the NT began (not before the death of the testator, according to Hebrews).

You can quote OT freely when God’s program has not changed concerning any particular matter. You just need to know if the program has been changed or not.

If NT does not give us anything about any change, then we have to go back to OT.

To apostle Paul was given instructions for us. Jesus prepared the 12 & the rest of the (believing) Israel for the coming tribulation. That is, Jesus and Paul had a context, in which they spoke / wrote. So according to Jesus you should not care about working either, because everything will be GIVEN, but you do care. Which is right, according to Paul.

Paul says that we should be in peace with everybody IF it is possible. And i myself believe this settles the issue.

]]> By: Michaeljon http://www.brandonstaggs.com/2007/07/28/christians-the-bible-and-guns-is-self-defense-vengeance/comment-page-1/#comment-6211 Michaeljon Mon, 03 Oct 2011 18:22:24 +0000 http://www.brandonstaggs.com/2007/07/28/christians-the-bible-and-guns-is-self-defense-vengeance/#comment-6211 What about the scripture for us to obey the laws of the land? Romans 13:1-2, TLB. Obey the government, for God is the one who has put it there. There is no government anywhere that God has not placed in power. So those who refuse to obey the laws of the land are refusing to obey God, and punishment will follow. Doesnt this mean for me to obey the state government and the law that says I have a right to use deadley force if I feel my life or my families life is threatend? I surley would never want to shoot anybody. But It would be very hard to watch my 5 year old son, or my wife be beaten, taken or murdered when I had the means to stop it. The bible also says to use judgement. Resisting an attack is not to be confused with taking vengeance which is the exclusive domain of God (Romans 12:19). This has been delegated to the civil magistrate, who, as we read in Romans 13:4, "is God's minister to you for good. But if you do evil, be afraid; for he does not bear the sword in vain; for he is God's minister, an avenger to execute wrath on him who practices evil. I agree with one of the other posters, let the holy spirit guide you. What about the scripture for us to obey the laws of the land?

Romans 13:1-2, TLB. Obey the government, for God is the one who has put it there. There is no government anywhere that God has not placed in power. So those who refuse to obey the laws of the land are refusing to obey God, and punishment will follow.

Doesnt this mean for me to obey the state government and the law that says I have a right to use deadley force if I feel my life or my families life is threatend? I surley would never want to shoot anybody. But It would be very hard to watch my 5 year old son, or my wife be beaten, taken or murdered when I had the means to stop it.

The bible also says to use judgement.
Resisting an attack is not to be confused with taking vengeance which is the exclusive domain of God (Romans 12:19). This has been delegated to the civil magistrate, who, as we read in Romans 13:4, “is God’s minister to you for good. But if you do evil, be afraid; for he does not bear the sword in vain; for he is God’s minister, an avenger to execute wrath on him who practices evil.

I agree with one of the other posters, let the holy spirit guide you.

]]> By: truthaboveall http://www.brandonstaggs.com/2007/07/28/christians-the-bible-and-guns-is-self-defense-vengeance/comment-page-1/#comment-6087 truthaboveall Sun, 28 Aug 2011 16:38:31 +0000 http://www.brandonstaggs.com/2007/07/28/christians-the-bible-and-guns-is-self-defense-vengeance/#comment-6087 Is it me,or for the most part are most of the posts looking at the discussion through a pin hole? is not the argument to defend or not to defend in an earthly manner? Regardless of guns ,arrows, knives or rocks? Are you using this as a way to further your agenda , or to seek the truth? Is it me,or for the most part are most of the posts looking at the discussion through a pin hole? is not the argument to defend or not to defend in an earthly manner? Regardless of guns ,arrows, knives or rocks? Are you using this as a way to further your agenda , or to seek the truth?

]]> By: Charles john http://www.brandonstaggs.com/2007/07/28/christians-the-bible-and-guns-is-self-defense-vengeance/comment-page-1/#comment-5943 Charles john Sun, 17 Jul 2011 07:39:14 +0000 http://www.brandonstaggs.com/2007/07/28/christians-the-bible-and-guns-is-self-defense-vengeance/#comment-5943 Imagine if Jesus would have killed his tormenters and torturers, the ones that nailed Him to the cross and believe this, he was armed with something much more powerful than your handguns, or machine guns. Where would we be? Salvation would not have been bought? What about Job and all his family died, he lost everything he held dear, should he have cursed God like his wife said? He kept his faith, even though; he in no wise could really understand, why? Should the Christians taken to the coliseum have fought their oppressors, you tell me? They were martyrs. No one knows how long they will live, or how they will die and we all still keep our faith and live to be an example for Christ and represent our Lord, God. When the town rejected the apostles Jesus sent out, they asked Him if they should sent fire and brimstone on them. And he said , OH NO, but it will be better for them than Sodom at Judgement in the meantime, knock the dust off of your sandals and go on. Imagine if Jesus would have killed his tormenters and torturers, the ones that nailed Him to the cross and believe this, he was armed with something much more powerful than your handguns, or machine guns.
Where would we be? Salvation would not have been bought?
What about Job and all his family died, he lost everything he held dear, should he have cursed God like his wife said?
He kept his faith, even though; he in no wise could really understand, why?
Should the Christians taken to the coliseum have fought their oppressors, you tell me?
They were martyrs.
No one knows how long they will live, or how they will die and we all still keep our faith and live to be an example for Christ and represent our Lord, God.
When the town rejected the apostles Jesus sent out, they asked Him if they should sent fire and brimstone on them. And he said , OH NO, but it will be better for them than Sodom at Judgement in the meantime, knock the dust off of your sandals and go on.

]]> By: Charles john http://www.brandonstaggs.com/2007/07/28/christians-the-bible-and-guns-is-self-defense-vengeance/comment-page-1/#comment-5942 Charles john Sun, 17 Jul 2011 07:31:06 +0000 http://www.brandonstaggs.com/2007/07/28/christians-the-bible-and-guns-is-self-defense-vengeance/#comment-5942 Quoting the old testament to support guns, automatic weapons and so forth is not very honest. Jesus said, that you should love your enemies and do good to them that despitefully use you. If you are forced to walk a mile with someone, walk with him two instead. Those that take up the sword will die by the sword. Where is the faith? How can there be any martyrs today when we kill them first. You love your life and you will lose it. IF you want a gun and banana clips and stuff, don't use God to justify it. Quoting the old testament to support guns, automatic weapons and so forth is not very honest.
Jesus said, that you should love your enemies and do good to them that despitefully use you. If you are forced to walk a mile with someone, walk with him two instead.
Those that take up the sword will die by the sword.

Where is the faith? How can there be any martyrs today when we kill them first.
You love your life and you will lose it.
IF you want a gun and banana clips and stuff, don’t use God to justify it.

]]> By: A little gun safety. « forgivenimperfection http://www.brandonstaggs.com/2007/07/28/christians-the-bible-and-guns-is-self-defense-vengeance/comment-page-1/#comment-5808 A little gun safety. « forgivenimperfection Wed, 15 Jun 2011 08:34:11 +0000 http://www.brandonstaggs.com/2007/07/28/christians-the-bible-and-guns-is-self-defense-vengeance/#comment-5808 [...] This: http://www.brandonstaggs.com/2007/07/28/christians-the-bible-and-guns-is-self-defense-vengeance/ [...] [...] This: http://www.brandonstaggs.com/2007/07/28/christians-the-bible-and-guns-is-self-defense-vengeance/ [...]

]]> By: JT http://www.brandonstaggs.com/2007/07/28/christians-the-bible-and-guns-is-self-defense-vengeance/comment-page-1/#comment-5793 JT Sun, 12 Jun 2011 13:51:51 +0000 http://www.brandonstaggs.com/2007/07/28/christians-the-bible-and-guns-is-self-defense-vengeance/#comment-5793 A man who would sit by and watch his family get brutalized would likely have some serious marital problems afterwards. A man who would sit by and watch his family get brutalized would likely have some serious marital problems afterwards.

]]> By: Joe B http://www.brandonstaggs.com/2007/07/28/christians-the-bible-and-guns-is-self-defense-vengeance/comment-page-1/#comment-5499 Joe B Fri, 06 May 2011 11:16:27 +0000 http://www.brandonstaggs.com/2007/07/28/christians-the-bible-and-guns-is-self-defense-vengeance/#comment-5499 Oops, that should have said God Himself, not Gun Himself. Heheh. I know, proof reading is fundamental. Sorry. Oops, that should have said God Himself, not Gun Himself. Heheh. I know, proof reading is fundamental. Sorry.

]]>